Does this title sound like a sequel to the over sensationalized Hollywood horror film The Serpent and the Rainbow? It wasn't intended too, I promise. The reality is those three symbols conjure up very distinct thoughts in my mind.
The Hubster bought a tee for Lil One about a month ago. On the tee was depicted a snake around the opening for the neck. All could see when I saw that shirt was a vision of a snake wrapped around my baby's neck. I refused to have Lil One wear the shirt. We ended up cutting off the image and using the shirt as rags for the Hubster to clean his car.
A few weeks ago I was contacted by a company wanting me to do product reviews of their children shirts. Their adorable t-shirts were decorated with colorful skull n crossbone drawings. They seriously were the cutest pictures. However, I started thinking about the whole skull n crossbone idea and it just didn't sit well with me so I kindly opted out of any promos for that company. Mandy at Peace and Craziness wrote a post called Skulls for Kids that was really interesting. Her post spawned an interesting debate about the Confederate (rebel) flag. There wasn't any correlation made between the Confederate flag and skull & crossbones. The topic sort of went that way as a result of a comment made.
When I see the Confederate flag, negative thoughts always come to mind for me. I think about how that flag represents a shameful part of the American history. That flag was flown by the south in its fight to keep slavery alive and to deny black people their inalienable rights. The Confederate flag raises questions about racism and hatred. I don't see a flag that represents American pride when I see the Confederate flag. Although, I know the flag wasn't birthed from prejudice and separation, it came to mean that when it was flown by the south during the Civil War.
The controversy over the flag has been an ongoing one probably since the Civil War ended. There are those who believe that it is simply a symbol of southern pride and that it doesn't carry the negative connotations of it's past. It's hard for me to grasp this concept. I don't see how a symbol that has several representations can come to only represent one thing simply because a person choose to see it that way. Does the swastika (the Nazi symbol) loose it's negativity because a person decides he wants to see it as something else? I'm sure if you ask a Jew they will beg to differ.
My question is then, should symbols like the swastika or the rebel flag eventually loose their negative connotation over time? Should we revamp their images and go back to the days when they weren't steeped in hatred and oppression? Is it even possible to do this? It seems that some people believe that those who were oppressed should forgive and forget and not let their children know the dark history behind such symbols? What do you think?
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Monday, August 18, 2008
The Serpent, The Rebel Flag and The Skull n Crossbone
Posted by Quiskaeya at 8:15 AM
Labels: This Mama on Issues
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12 comments:
That is an interesting question. I think that perhaps within a few hundred years of an event or era the symbols should remain heavy with meaning and as reminders of people who have died or lost liberties. Especially when there are still people (or their children and grandchildren) alive who lived through the oppression or terror of an event.
So, in this case I would say that "forgetting" the implied meanings of the Confederate Flag or the Swastika is very 1984ish -- rewriting history to make people feel better. Human beings are not perfect and we need to remember our worst failings, so that we are motivated to do better and watch out for one another.
At some point though, the symbols will become a part of history and "holding" a grudge against them will probably become passe. For example, in 1800 it probably wasn't too cool to hang a British Flag from one's window in Boston, but now that would not be a big deal.
Thanks for plugging me in your post. :) And thanks for your comment. Hearing straight from a black woman's mouth that it IS still offensive means much more than when a white lady like myself says so.
For the skull and crossbones symbol, I definitely still find it offensive even though most of my readers claimed not to. I agree with you that it just has a negative connotation, and I can't shake it. Darkness and death wearing a bow is just not what I want my children sporting. Call me crazy! lol
As for the flag, I was clear in my own comments, in reply to the comments made about it, that even as a white person I find it INCREDIBLY offensive. To know that Christians especially fly it with pride and with no care for the mass amounts of people that they are hurting or making angry is appalling to me. As a Christian woman, I see it as my job to walk in LOVE in all times. Flying a flag that everyone is well aware has such controversy and negative history surrounding it just does not go with Christian values. We are called to create harmony, not division.
I honestly don't think we will ever see the day that the flag is not offensive, but I do think that eventually it will be similar to what "green me" stated about the British Flag in Boston. (good point!) Until the day comes that racism isn't so prevalent (from all sides) in America, the Confederate flag will remain a dividing tool.
I also do not understand how Southern Pride is associated with the Confederate Flag. I am NOT proud of that part of my southern history. It is not something I want to display across my chest or on a pole. I am saddened that people ever thought (or still think) that any group of people deserved less humane treatment than another. To think that went on in AMERICA is really hard to get my mind around.
As a Jew myself and as a person who has studied world religions I see two sides of the swastika. It depends upon the context.
The swastika is a very very very ancient religious symbol from India. This symbol represents God, priest and ordinary people... It is a symbol of good luck.
The fact that the Nazi took it and used it to represent their sick hatred does not change what it means.
For example many a christian cross has been turned upside down on lawns of non-whites amd non-christians alike.... burned as a symbol of hatred.
But this does not stop Christians from wearing crosses around their necks. No one is seeking to ban the cross.
A true swastika and the beautiful spiritual symbolism that it represents for the Hindu people is not marred by what the Nazi or Hitler used it for.
Personally, I think the difference is because the cross is STILL used MOSTLY to represent Christ and as a religious symbol. (not by rednecks that want a not so subtle way to be racists, like the rebel flag.) If you saw a cross suddenly appear in the yard of an African American family, it might be assumed that's a negative thing, due to the history. Seeing a cross at a church or around someone's neck as a necklace, usually sparks the idea of Jesus, not hate. This is the problem with any symbol.. it doesn't necessarily matter what the history or even TRUTH about it is, it's what idea is attached to it by members of any given society. One must keep that knowledge in mind when choosing what symbols you will be associated with.
Though the swastika was a symbol of beautiful things in ANCIENT times, modern day society views is, as a whole, in assciation with negative events. This is why it is offensive. Though someone very educated on the matter could definitely view it in a different context, MOST people cannot.
It is SO sad that many once beautiful and well intended symbols have been turned into symbols of hate and rage by evil in the world.
I have never separated the meaning of the Confederate flag nor the American flag. Ok so, I feel the glares coming through my computer screen. But let's be very honest with ourselves. If we are going to associate slavery with the Confederate flag, then we cannot dismiss the American flag.
Presently studying the Civil War, I no longer look at objects the way they were once presented through history. Like the Confederate flag. For the longest I associated the flag with white superiority. Learning about the Louisiana Volunteers during the Civil War, recently seeing a "black" man on the news proudly displaying the flag and sharing what it means to him, has changed my point of view.
Green Me: Great point that holding grudges against them become passe in using the illustration of the British flag. I think that when people reach of level of reconciliation with other people then holding onto the hurt no longer is necessary. I hope that this country reaches that level of reconciliation between the various racial groups one day very soon. Just like Martin luther King envisioned in his speech. Progress certainly has been made toward racial reconciliation but there is still work to be done. I appreciate your thoughts!
Mandy: I totally agree with you on your thoughts on walking in Christian love and harmony. Sometimes it requires us to deny ourselves our right and think of the other person and how it would affect them. Again I agree that southern pride certainly isn't summed up in a single flag. Thank you for sharing your perspective!
Anonymous: It's interesting to hear things from your opinion. My mom has a Jewish friend whose entire family was killed before her when she was 15 in a Nazi camp. The mere thought of the Swastika gives her anxiety attachs and understandably so. I can't speak for all Jews. I can't even speak for all blacks. But as I for me out of respect to those who have suffered under those flags and until full reconciliation is reached so that neither flag brings division I. Will. Not. Fly. The. Flags.
I agree with Mandy on the thoughts on the Christian flag. I don't think the situations surrounding using the cross in isolated racial events come close to what slavery did or what happened to the Jews. Thanks for stopping by!
Smells Good Lady: I once saw a black man on t.v. saying that slavery was just a made up thing in America to keep black & white people always at each others throats. He went on to say that even if slavery did happen he doesn't know any former slaves so it doesn't matter to me what happened to people in the past. I laughed and kept on flipping the channels. Ignorance leads to more ignorance. Poor fool. To each their own opinion. For me it's about respect. The symbols themselves are insignificant. Personally, I just can't fly with pride a flag that brings separation and division no matter whether or not it affect me personally. Thanks for sharing your poi!
I think they will always represent the negativity of the past.
I honestly thought it was illegal, until i moved to VA, and there they are. It's sad because it sends a unwelcoming message.
My african american friends do not go to "that-side-of-town", I can't blame them....it's sad that freedom is still limited.
I agree w/ Mandy we should put aside anything that would offend another.
As far as the rebel flag is concerned it did represent the South in a time when slavery was accepted. Fact is, slavery was also accepted in the North prior to many southern states seceding from the Union. Many, if not all, of the Southern states listed slavery in their secession statements.
However, the majority of people, (who were born into that way of life-not unlike slaves themselves) did not own slaves. That includes a majority who fought for the South in the civil war. A lot of those young men and women were fighting to protect their way of life - the only way they knew. was it right? NO. Was it accepted at the time as status quo? YES. Most slaves were owned by wealthy landowners and planters, who happened to be the politician's at the time too.
That flag represents a huge bundle of people's ancestors who fought for what they believed in. Many who fought to keep their way of life which was protected prior to the Civil War through the Union. Many joined and fought for the protection of family and land after the war began - those who were not forced to fight. Was it right or just? NO.
The rebel flag did and does represent a lot of things. The fact that it has been used by a group of mostly un-educated people to represent their beliefs is sad. The fact that the rebel flag now is more noticeably recognized for that group is far worse.
The argument that once a symbol has been used for negative meanings, it should no longer be used, is not a good one for me. If that were the case, no one would be able to use the following;
Red - Bloods
Blue - Crips
Rabbits - Vice Lords
Mickey Mouse - Mexican Mafia
Yes, those are gang symbols or colors, all extremist groups who have adopted those as recognizable signs. That is a small list, there are many other colors, including black and gold which are used by gangs. I guess I'll have to stop shaving my head now because I do not want to be confused with a Neo Nazi skinhead.
Just my two cents, may not be worth any more than that to anyone else.
Quite simply, symbols often have many different meanings to different people. If you do away with everything because it has a negative response to some people then you might as well do away with our American Flag as well. After all, it is the symbol which many stand behind to argue it gives them the right for their extremist opinions. Fact is, IT DOES!
There are a lot of good points here. There were people who lived near me that me that had a confederate flag in their window the few times.I have avoided walking by that house for that reason. The few times that I walked by with my daughter and dog they made some remark about my dog looking like my daughter (my dog is white/black) and that pissed me off. I said something to them and that was the end of it. They have since move so I no longer have to put with it.
It's sad that there are still people who think this way, whether it's a flag, or symbol, somethings are just to deep to be pushed aside. But to each their own.
Great post and dialogue!
Interesting to read here what each brings to the table of discussion.
The Confederate flag is a symbol of treason and man's inhumanity to man. It is a shameful thing that for many years certain southern states had incorporated it into their own state flag. To possess, or fly one of those flags should be at a minimum considered extreme bad form, and should probably be considered some sort of criminal offense. For all you good old boys out there who had ancestors who fought for the south, just remember they were traitors to the Union. 'Nuff said.
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